Quotes - Random Religious

 Quotes:

"The enemy is anybody who's going to get you killed, no matter which side he's on..." Yossarian, Catch 22.

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And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.

Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is error alone that needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself. […]

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.

Thomas Jefferson, founding father of the US

"Take away from Genesis the belief that Moses was the author, on which only the strange believe that it is the word of God has stood, and there remains nothing of Genesis but an anonymous book of stories, fables, and traditionary or invented absurdities, or of downright lies.”

Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason

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Joseph Fielding Smith had a few words to say concerning those who try to harmonize the gospel with evolution

"But the Theistic evolutionist is a weak-kneed and unbelieving religionist, who is constantly apologizing for the miracles of the scriptures, and who does not believe in the divine mission of Jesus Christ.

Again I repeat, no man can consistently accept the doctrine of the evolutionist and also believe in the divine mission of our Redeemer. The two thoughts are in absolute conflict.

You cannot harmonize them and serve both masters.

IF EVOLUTION IS TRUE, THE CHURCH IS FALSE. [all caps in original]"

Doctrines of Salvation, Vol 1 page 143

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Meanwhile David O. McKay in private to Sterling McMurrin, 1954: “I would like to know just what it is that a man must be required to believe to be a member of this church. Or, what it is that he is not permitted to believe, and remain a member of this church. I would like to know just what that is. Is it evolution? I hope not, because I believe in evolution.”

Prince and Wright’s David O. McKay and the Rise of Modern Mormonism (University of Utah Press, 2005), 46. The source they cite is a taped interview with McMurrin recalling the interview, which occurred while he was a professor at the University of Utah.

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""...man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.”

― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

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Now that you don't have to be perfect, you can be good. John Steinbeck

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Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too? - Douglas Adams

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The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off. Unknown.

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Whites are the superior race

“Nor yet elevate them, as some seem disposed, to an equality with those whom Nature and Nature’s God has indicated to be their masters, their superiors.”

Journals of the Legislative Assembly of the Territory of Utah …, pgs. 109–110, Jan 5, 1852

Black and White interracial relationships will be met with death

“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.”

Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, pg. 110, Oct. 6, 1863

Black slaves are God’s ‘decree’

“Ham must be the servant of servants until the curse is removed. Can you destroy the decrees of the Almighty? You cannot. Yet our Christian brethren think that they are going to overthrow the sentence of the Almighty upon the seed of Ham.”

Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, pg. 250, Oct. 6, 1863

American Indians are ‘savage,’ ‘ferocious,’ and ‘wild’

“Unlike any other Territory or State, we are entirely surrounded by savage tribes, who are wild in their nature, ferocious in their character; and being withal somewhat warlike, it becomes necessary to provide for the efficient organization of the militia. I would recommend, that encouragement be given to secure mounted troops, so far as practicable, as being the most expeditious and efficient, to protect the distant frontier from the depredations of this wild men of the mountains.”

Journals of the Legislative Assembly of the Territory of Utah …, p. 103, Sept 22, 1851

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I hope that you will develop the questing spirit. Be unafraid of new ideas for they are the stepping stones of progress. You will of course respect the opinions of others but be unafraid to dissent—if you are informed.

Hugh B. Brown, Brigham Young University, March 29, 1958

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Facts are more important than any cherished, mistaken beliefs. - Hugh B. Brown.

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To those of faith who, looking through the colored glasses of the 21st century, honestly question events or statements of the Prophet Joseph from nearly 200 years ago, may I share some friendly advice: For now, give Brother Joseph a break!

Neil L. Andersen

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2015/10/faith-is-not-by-chance-but-by-choice

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Some might ask, “But what about my doubts?”

It’s natural to have questions—the acorn of honest inquiry has often sprouted and matured into a great oak of understanding. There are few members of the Church who, at one time or another, have not wrestled with serious or sensitive questions. One of the purposes of the Church is to nurture and cultivate the seed of faith—even in the sometimes sandy soil of doubt and uncertainty. Faith is to hope for things which are not seen but which are true.

Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters—my dear friends—please, first doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith. We must never allow doubt to hold us prisoner and keep us from the divine love, peace, and gifts that come through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Come, Join with Us, President Dieter F. Uchtdorf, Second Counselor in the First Presidency,

October 2013 General Conference

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2013/10/come-join-with-us?lang=eng

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Some struggle with unanswered questions about things that have been done or said in the past. We openly acknowledge that in nearly 200 years of Church history—along with an uninterrupted line of inspired, honorable, and divine events—there have been some things said and done that could cause people to question.

Sometimes questions arise because we simply don’t have all the information and we just need a bit more patience. When the entire truth is eventually known, things that didn’t make sense to us before will be resolved to our satisfaction.

Sometimes there is a difference of opinion as to what the “facts” really mean. A question that creates doubt in some can, after careful investigation, build faith in others.

Come, Join with Us, President Dieter F. Uchtdorf, Second Counselor in the First Presidency,

October 2013 General Conference

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2013/10/come-join-with-us?lang=eng

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When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you. - Walter Payton

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"Doubt never leads to faith." Sister Redlund

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"Doubt and faith cannot exist in the same person at the same time."

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Doubt, unless turned into inquiry into reliable sources, is [worthless?] John A. Widsoe

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Barry Goldberg

 · 

Following

Author of the "Common Sense Atheism" series of books

If Adam and eve were first humans where does evolution theory fit in?

Q: If Adam and eve were first humans where does evolution theory fit in?

Oooooh… this looks fun! Can I play?

“If human babies are delivered by storks, where does embryology theory fit in?”

“If Harry Potter is able to fly on a broom, where does gravitational theory fit in?”

“If the sun is a god riding a golden chariot being pulled across the sky each day by flying horses, where does heliocentric theory fit in?”

“If diseases are caused by an imbalance of bodily humors (black bile, yellow bile, blood and phlegm), where does the germ theory of disease fit in?”

WHEEEE!!!

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How the human mind works:

First there is the Illusory Truth Effect. Then Cognitive Dissonance. Then Confirmation Bias. Then the type of mind that conforms to group think, is attracted to ritual, and follows authority without question.

Humans are tribal. Religion is tool invented to control the tribe.

Humans succeed in groups due to cooperation and trust. An individual in a large strong tribe will pass on his genes. Centuries of killing dissenters and imprisoning skeptics encourages conformity.

Sure it's a stupid belief. It also gets many laid along with other social and economic benefits.

So many can't question it. Others are afraid to. Some do and are ostracized for doing so.

The Enlightenment was centuries ago. It will take generations of evolution for the human mind to evolve beyond superstition..

Yet the superstitious have a lot more kids. So no time soon.

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“Of course, people of faith regularly assure one another that God is not responsible for human suffering. But how else can we understand the claim that God is both omniscient and omnipotent? There is no other way, and it is time for sane human beings to own up to this. This is the age-old problem of theodicy, of course, and we should consider it solved. If God exists, either He can do nothing to stop the most egregious calamities, or He does not care to. God, therefore, is either impotent or evil. Pious readers will now execute the following pirouette: God cannot be judged by merely human standards of morality. But, of course, human standards of morality are precisely what the faithful use to establish God’s goodness in the first place. And any God who could concern himself with something as trivial as gay marriage, or the name by which he is addressed in prayer, is not as inscrutable as all that. If He exists, the God of Abraham is not merely unworthy of the immensity of creation; he is unworthy even of man.”

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Babylon started the trinities Nimrod, Tammuz, Simerimas and Shamash, Sin, Ishtar.

Then the other pagan religions copied them.

Egypt: Osiris, Horus, Isis

Greece: Zeus, Apollo, Athena

India: Brahama, Vishnu, Shiva

Rome: Jupiter, Mars, Venus

Then apostate Christians copied the pagans in the 4th century.

Father, Son, holy spirit

Babylon the Great commits spiritual fornication with the kings of the earth. (Rev 18:3)

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Why was Sodom Destroyed?

This is directly from Ezekiel 16:49–50

Behold this was the iniquity of Sodom your sister: pride, abundance of bread, and careless ease were hers and her daughters', and she did not strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

מטהִנֵּה־זֶ֣ה הָיָ֔ה עֲו‍ֹ֖ן סְדֹ֣ם אֲחוֹתֵ֑ךְ גָּא֨וֹן שִׂבְעַת־לֶ֜חֶם וְשַׁלְוַ֣ת הַשְׁקֵ֗ט הָ֚יָה לָהּ֙ וְלִבְנוֹתֶ֔יהָ וְיַד־עָנִ֥י וְאֶבְי֖וֹן לֹ֥א הֶֽחֱזִֽיקָה:

50And they became haughty and did abomination before Me, and I removed them when I saw.

נוַתִּגְבְּהֶ֔ינָה וַתַּֽעֲשֶׂ֥ינָה תֽוֹעֵבָ֖ה לְפָנָ֑י וָֽאָסִ֥יר אֶתְהֶ֖ן כַּֽאֲשֶׁ֥ר רָאִֽיתִי:

So, why were they destroyed? Because they were prideful, too much food, careless ease (laziness), didn’t help the poor or needy, and of course full of themselves and were promiscuous, but the worst crimes were pride, too much food, laziness and refusal to help the poor or needy (take note Conservatives who speak about “entitlements”, ending Welfare, Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare…you’re refusing to help the needy and poor)., it wasn’t because of homosexuality.

https://www.quora.com/profile/David-Uretsky

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Profile photo for David Uretsky

Profile photo for Richard Lemieux

Richard Lemieux

 · Aug 8

Penguins also have gay adoptions. Other penguins will give the same sex couples eggs to raise as their own. And penguins mate for life.

Female penguins will also trade sex for rocks for their nests.

So penguins have gay marriage, gay adoptions and prostitution. We can learn a lot from Penguins.

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Social organization is like this: Little kids ~ dogs/wolves, teenagers ~ cats and mature adults ~ birds.

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13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 20:13

Actually, that was mistranslated. The word is “boy.” If a man also lie with a boy, as he lieth with a woman…” So it is an injunction against pedophilia / pederasty.

zâkâr is the word and it means male

(ish vs zachar, man vs male)

“These specific words – “men” and “males” – were used precisely in descriptions of the Greek custom back then because, at that time, only men who were of adult age and of sufficient substance to own land, vote, and marry, could legally be called “men.” Those who were too young to vote, own land, or marry could only be referred to as “males” under Greek law.”

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There are no sins of lust with women in the old testament. Women were property, not people, so all the sins related with women are sins about property, not about lust. Taking or use a woman from another man (either husband of parent) was akin to thief.

Look, if you want to understand the bible, you need to know the context, and the right translations.

Obviously, most Christians, mainly literalists, don’t want to understand the bible, only use it to justify their prejudices.

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That specific phrase was due to the fact that the Jews were often living in a land where other religions and nationalities were also present. In many older cultures, one way to show you were wealthy and powerful was to have slaves INCLUDING a “male servant” that was literally a prepubescent male that you regularly had sex with. Jews/Hebrews were trying to set themselves apart from the “impure/immoral” world around them. Thus the rules for being circumcised, what clothes to wear, what to eat, and most of all NEVER rape young boys. Even then they understood that consent was not possible from a person too young to have sex normally and who was already in a position of weakness.

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Science in the bible, a very small selection:

Rabbits chew cud

Bats are birds

Earth is flat

Pi is 3

The firmament is held up by pillars

Whales can swallow people whole

Donkeys talk

A wooden boat can contain every kind of animal

There is enough water on Earth to cover the entire globe

Science has shown all of those points wrong. You were saying?

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True Freedom begins with Freedom of THOUGHT. Think for yourself. ANTI-DOGMATISM

-ME

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This was my experience (as a JW), after devoting myself from seven years old to 21, going door to door. I didn’t go to college because of 1975 predictions: “Don’t paint a sinking ship” we were told when I was in high school. 

Deborah Mickler on Quora  · Jul 26 2022

Responses by JWs: 

Ben Gordon Burns  · Jul 26

What sort of satisfying answer are you looking for?

Kecia Connor  · Jul 29

This is how you know if someone was not in the truth. They “may have" attended meetings, but, never made the truth their own. They never had the personal relationship with Jehovah. They were just floating along on a raft. No sail or rudder for directions. Then, they become disappointed when storms of life comes their way. They sink or get overtaken. They can't figure it out. They never truly learned who Jehovah is, the comments always give you an idea of what they thought all along. They never believed the truth. Meaningful personal study of the Bible and paying attention to the things taught would help them understand. So of course with no solid roots formed, a storm comes and they fall. Oh, they will insist they knew, the truth, they always do. However, if a litmus test was performed, all you would get are angry words. No foundation and no understanding of the deeper things of God. Guaranteed, every time.

Al Dario  · Jul 27

Not only that Dollie, they discouraged higher education because in the new system of things, lawyers and doctors and physicists etc are not needed. The only useful professions are plumbers and carpenters. Right now the GB needs lawyers to defend their various court cases. They need accountants to manage their books. They need doctors to manage their health and of course they need computer and software engineers to manage their evolving new http://JW.ORG. This is absurd and a form of mental slavery all in the name of Jesus. At least the Catholics built schools and hospitals. The Advpentists, Methodists and Anglicans also. JW does not give back in any material way, shape or form. They only take care of their members in time of disasters. Matthew 5: 46 says “if you love only those who loves you, what good have you done? Are the gentiles not doing the same?”

Al Dario  · Jul 27

I concur with the late Pastor Charles Taze Russell who said “Religion is a snare”. Organized religion no matter the toga or nomenclature is a snare. True worship is not supposed to be an organized method of mind control whereby members are expected to surrender to a central human control. Every organized religious body with a central control is by its very nature oppressive especially when it regards itself or is regarded by adherents as the mouthpiece of God. The only weapon of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed. It doesn't matter if it is political or religious oppression.

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King Philip II, the Macedonian ruler, father of Alexander the Great, after taking most of the Greek city-states sent a letter to Laconia, Sparta.

It said, "You were advised to submit without further delay. For, if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people and raze your city".

To which the Spartans replied with one word: "if".

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Serendipity comes from a tale of three princes of Serendip (Ceylon) who went on a quest. The quest failed but they had so many other adventures on the way, it didn’t matter. Serendipity is unexpected discovery while looking for something else.

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“I’ve always had an inquiring mind. I’m not satisfied just to accept things. I like to follow through and study things out. I learned early to put aside those gospel questions that I couldn’t answer. I had a shelf of things I didn’t understand, but as I’ve grown older and studied and prayed and thought about each problem, one by one I’ve been able to better understand them.”

She twinkles, “I still have some questions on that shelf, but I’ve come to understand so many other things in my life that I’m willing to bide my time for the rest of the answers.”

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1975/10/camilla-kimball-lady-of-constant-learning

Ensign Magazine, October 1975, Camilla Kimball: Lady of Constant Learning By Lavina Fielding

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In the days of Joseph, when the revelation came to him and Sidney Rigdon, while translating that portion of the New Testament contained in the 29th verse of the third chapter of John, in reference to the different degrees of glory, I was not prepared to say that I believed it, and I had to wait.

What did I do? I handed this over to the Lord in my feelings, and said I, “I will wait until the spirit of God manifests to me, for or against.” I did not judge the matter, I did not argue against it, not in the least. I never argued the least against anything Joseph proposed, but if I could not see or understand it, I handed it over to the Lord. This is my counsel to you, my brethren and sisters…

https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/JournalOfDiscourses3/id/6894

Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 18:247

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For the first time in a while, I felt peace. My questions still hadn’t been answered, but I didn’t feel lost anymore. I realized that God is in control. He doesn’t expect me to put my questions on the shelf and forget about them. But He does expect me to trust Him. In all of my truth-seeking, I have to remember who the source of all truth is. And I have to recognize that while I’m deliberating over a single piece of the puzzle, He holds the pieces I can’t see. He sees the big picture—the biggest picture. And someday I’ll see it too.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2018/02/i-have-a-question-and-thats-ok

Ensign Online, February 2018, I Have a Question, and That’s OK By Maryssa Dennis

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“We don’t control the timing of getting answers. Sometimes answers come quickly, and sometimes we must place questions on the shelf for a time and rely on our faith that has developed from the answers we do know”

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/church-leaders-address-seminary-and-institute-teachers-through-annual-broadcast/helping-students-dispel-doubt-through-spiritual-knowledge?lang=eng

Elder Paul V. Johnson spoke to CES instructors during a CES broadcast on August 7, 2012.

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“I suggest that research is not the answer,” he said.

“But the best answer to any question that threatens faith is to work to increase faith in the Lord Jesus Christ,” he said. “Conversion to the Lord precedes conversion to the Church. And conversion to the Lord comes through prayer and study and service, furthered by loving patience on the part of spouse and other concerned family members.”

“When you are asked a difficult question, such as a puzzler about Church history, be honest and, if necessary, say you don’t know. But then be sure to say what you do know: ‘I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God.’”

Dallin H. Oaks

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/president-oaks-counsels-young-couples-defending-the-gospel-on-the-frontline-?lang=eng

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problem of evil vs. question of sin

how can you sin if God created you that way?

salvation is a solution to a non-problem

cutting people with knives to sell them bandages

If salvation is the cure, then athiesm is the prophylactic / prevention 

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For who that has understanding will suppose that the first, and second, and third day, and the evening and the morning, existed without a sun, and moon, and stars? And that the first day was, as it were, also without a sky? And who is so foolish as to suppose that God, after the manner of a husbandman, planted a paradise in Eden, towards the east, and placed in it a tree of life, visible and palpable, so that one tasting of the fruit by the bodily teeth obtained life? And again, that one was a partaker of good and evil by masticating what was taken from the tree? And if God is said to walk in the paradise in the evening, and Adam to hide himself under a tree, I do not suppose that anyone doubts that these things figuratively indicate certain mysteries, the history having taken place in appearance, and not literally.

—  Origen (c. 184 – c. 253), On the First Principles

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causes of food addiction

pain

fear

guilt

stress

treatments / cures

self care:

meditation

journaling

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"Anyone who denies the law of non-contradiction should be beaten and burned until he admits that to be beaten is not the same as not to be beaten, and to be burned is not the same as not to be burned."

— Avicenna

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8WRhOnkFGs

Compare and contrast (synthesize?) the cognitive dissonance of failed religious expectations with failed political expectations and failed nationalistic expectations.

(also post civil war south)

nostalgia (a form of depression for people who cannot seize the present? (Patrick Lawrence)

The psychology of it all - we need a new conscousness, new idea of ourselves - (Patrick Lawrence)

BK The promise of American Life 1909 - Herbert Crowley

Transform from A nation with a Destiny vs. a nation with a Purpose - 

Destiny = exceptionalism, alibis for "sacred" mission, "providence"

Purpose = agency, responsibility

From Myth to History

Worldly Order vs. Individual Dominance

Legislative exceptionalism - rule of law = human made exceptionalism vs. providence

French = "angelism" - other-worldly idealism

The state of exeption - "The giver of law is above the law"

Natural elitism of anybody who cares enough to learn vs. populistic ideas / how to mobilize the masses without manipulation

WE DON'T SEE FROM OTHER'S POINTS OF VIEW BC WE DON'T THINK WE HAVE TO.

Butros Dali? - "Diplomacy is for weak nations. The strong have no need for them."

1896 ELECTION - democracy at home or empire abroad? we chose wrong

our press robs us of historical context. example: "russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine"

Minsk accords (2014?) - not enforcement - designed to empower Ukraine vs. Russia (toward the west)

Congressional actions to improve the situation: 

Congress can end treaties by statute = get out of NATO (existential threat to russia)

Don't let us enter war without declaration from Congress (congress likes to avoid responsibility and blame the president, so they abdicate authority - they won't declare war, so that would protect us from war)

Pass a law to bar deploy of troops overseas without Congressional authority.

We can have an effect. The anti-war movement ended Vietnam.

The press has a profound responsibility. Often controlled by policy cliques. Need a new independent press.

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History

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it - Winston Churchill

History is written by the victors - Winston Churchill

History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon - Napoleon Bonaparte

History is a pack of lies about events that never happened told by people who weren't there. - George Santayana

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“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.”

—Brigham Young Journal of Discourses, vol.10, p.110

“How long is that race to endure the dreadful curse that is upon them? That curse will remain upon them, and they never can hold the Priesthood or share in it until all the other descendants of Adam have received the promises and enjoyed the blessings of the Priesthood and the keys thereof. Until the last ones of the residue of Adam’s children are brought up to that favourable position, the children of Cain cannot receive the first ordinances of the Priesthood. They were the first that were cursed, and they will be the last from whom the curse will be removed.”

—Brigham Young Journal of Discourses, vol.7, p.290

“Negroes in this life are denied the Priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty. The gospel message of salvation is not carried affirmatively to them…Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned, particularlythe priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from, but this inequality is not of man’s origin. It is the Lord’s doing, is based on his eternal laws of justice, and grows out of the lack of Spiritual valiance of those concerned in their first estate.”

—Bruce R. McConkie Mormon Doctrine, 1966, pp.527-528

“That negro race, for instance, have been placed under restrictions because of their attitude in the world of spirits, few will doubt. It cannot be looked upon as just that they should be deprived of the power of the Priesthood without it being a punishment for some act, or acts, performed before they were born.”

—Joseph Fielding Smith

“Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness he became the father of an inferior race. A curse was placed upon him and that curse has been continued through his lineage and must do so while time endures. Millions of souls have come into this world cursed with a black skin and have been denied the privilege of Priesthood and the fullness of the blessing of the Gospel. These are the descendants of Cain.”

—Joseph Fielding Smith

​ “We must not inter-marry with the Negro. Why? If I were to marry a Negro woman and have children by her, my children would all be cursed as to the priesthood. Do I want my children cursed as to the priesthood? If there is one drop of Negro blood in my children, as I have read to you, they receive the curse. There isn’t any argument, therefore, as to inter-marriage with the Negro, is there? There are 50 million Negroes in the United States. If they were to achieve complete absorption with the white race, think what that would do.”

—Mark E. Peterson

“In spite of all he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant”

—Mark E. Peterson

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Oaks said that he asked god and never got any answers. And then in a baffling twist of logic stated that god rarely gives reasons for his commandments. That thumping sound was Elohim going under the rear wheels of the Mormon bus.

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I sat in an elder's quorum meeting circa. 1998 about 2 hours from where I grew up. It was a homogenous audience. The 2nd Counselor was "teaching." He told all of us present that the Lord has often conceded to the pressures of society when society got evil.

As evidence of these concessions, he cited the theory that the 10 commandments were a "redo" because the Israelites weren't ready for the true law. He followed with further discussion of the eternal truth found in the law of polygamy, the removal of the law of consecration after Nauvoo, then finally finished with his assertion that the priesthood was granted to non-whites only because "man demanded it." He testified to us all that the church's doctrine is unchanging and that only the evil of man allows for these changes to take place. He promised that in the hereafter, the fullness of the gospel would rule: that all of these "changes" would be reversed because, well...God's Law.

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Does it really matter who the Dungeon Masters allow to cast spells? Just join a new party and roll your own dice. awj

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Shame is not the opposite of pride, but its source.

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